Foundation (TV Series) Death and the Maiden (2021) User Reviews

Foundation just went full on Star Wars

[Borgenschatz · 8/10 · 23 October 2021]

We are suddenly introduced to the plot that a giant warship exists. A so called planet destroyer (sounds familiar?) which the anachreons will somehow use to their advantage. It's supposed to be a massive weapon on the level of star killer base, Death Star, or a star destroyer.

The hilarious part is, it's name "Invictus" happens to be the same name used by. Luke, Leia and Han Solo to go to Endor hiding under the eyes of the Death Star in The Return of the Jedi.

This is where the show takes a course of its own. For the non-book readers out there in the books there is no invictus, there is no mega space weapon because this was never the point of the books! The point isn't about weapons, fights, battles etc. It's about the moral decay of society and the implications of social corruption of individuals.

Might as well name the show Foundation: The Last Mathematician at this point.

Foundation as Charcuterie of Tropes Sculpture

[bmcraec · 6/10 · 24 October 2021]

I'm glad that I haven't re-read the source books, so I wasn't trying too hard to see how the original themes get mapped by the newest interpreters. Visually, I can see references to everything that has been popular over the last 50 years. Including the appropriately patriotic outgunned desert fire fight, where someone close to a main character sacrifices themselves for the greater good, and the cusp development piece so the main character can get to the next level. I've got nothing against tropes. Well-used, and melded into harmonious tales that show some sensitivity to the limitations of short-hand. It's not bad, but I don't really recognize it from the memories of my initial reading experience.

Ignore the book readers this is great

[alexleizerovichcoaching · 8/10 · 22 October 2021]

This episode was slower than the previous one which was great. Still it had more character development. Most of the bad reviews are from the book readers, complaining its not the same as the book. Seriously who cares. If you want to read the book go read it. Otherwise this is a good Sci fi series.

absolutely atrocious acting this episode

[hafaball-1 · 24 October 2021]

Putting all the other faults aside, I can't believe a director got away with this. Not that the acting has ever been stellar, but this time around, I don't know what happened. Am I crazy? This was Middle school, Syfy Sharknado level acting. It seemed like everything is so expensive they could only do one take for every shot. Everyone is enunciating at such weird times, voices going up and down in pitch, suddenly that one woman in the desert world is speaking like she's at a Baptist church? The scene with Hari and Raych, neither spoke like even a human would, no matter what the scene entailed. Lee Pace doesn't seem to know what he's doing or what's going on. The one playing Salvor is the worst of all, it's like she's never given what her motivation is (since she seems to have very little), so she struggles with even the most basic of emotions. This is the only episode I've noticed this blatant plummet of acting quality, really hope it doesn't continue.

This was a better than average episode

[MoziSzerdanPapucsban · 7/10 · 23 October 2021]

Are you upset that the show is not an adaptation of the books? So was I, but if you still are, why are you still watching?

This episode further hints at the original idea behind the show: the genetic dynasty and elements of the galaxy revolting against it. This is a nice idea, worthy of its own show.

In my opinion the show would be better if they totally skipped the elements that vaguely refer to the Foundation books, as those simply do not fit. Personally I am also not a fan of the currently popular trend of having 3+ storylines in a single show, this is a cheap way to build suspense.

I also understand why fans of the book are upset: it is not just that the adaptation is imperfect, but the ideas espoused in the show are at times literally contradictory to the main ideas of the books.

It doesn't matter who read the books or who didn't, this is just bad TV

[branimalic · 6/10 · 29 October 2021]

If you are the kind of consumer who just wants to be entertained, no matter how intellectually substantial a movie or a series is - this might even be right for you. I have friends who like all those "modern" comedies - I can't remember when I watched one the last time - and it is perfectly fine. I like the guys and that's their choice.

Regarding this show: It is predictable and there is no excitement whatsoever. It tries to be miraculous and to bring in some pseudo-religious themes and to be "hard-sci-fi" at the same time. Especially those pretentious religion scenes are real energy vampires - dull and without soul - remember the fishman-world where the "math-genius-girl" came from (and those stupid clothes) or the strange order in this episode. If they would have incorporated the Cree-customs from Guardians of the Galaxy regarding the Emperor it wouldn't make a big difference. Speaking of the Cree - the Lee-Pace-incarnation of the empire (therefore Brother Day mostly) is the only interesting character in this show and even that is getting boring. Sad, but true. The "action"-sequences - well yeah... I've decided to stop watching it - nothing substantial happens and even the things that are happening are not interesting, exciting or connecting.

Waiting for the next season of the Expanse.

It's getting better and better.

[arthuroliveira-65367 · 10/10 · 22 October 2021]

The first book is very dry in terms of character development, and on the show the writers decide to put more of that in and fans get nervous.

The First Foundation is not a ´´Dune´´ in terms of characters as it is more about concepts and ideas than characters and situations.

If they literally adapted the first book, there would only be 4 or at most 5 episodes left and it would be mostly just dialogues and that wouldn't go down well in a 10-episode series. . So adding adventure, new concepts and lots of new characters is really necessary. Eveb Asimov Agreed that if they adapted Foundation, many changes would be necessary.

This episode was excellent and showed everything from an electrifying adventure in Terminus to religious lessons on the part of Emperor Cleon (Lee Pace) .

PS:What actress it´s T´Nia Miller. She plays the priestess Halima and simply stole this episode with her speeches.

Episode 6 fills out the plots with good imagery.

[strawberry-58106 · 7/10 · 25 October 2021]

As an episode, "Death and the Maiden" fills in some depth to the disparate subplots in Foundation. And it does some with some gorgeous shots.

Of special note for future episodes are the revelations about brother Dawn's flaws (as the Empire would see them.)

This episode is far better than the incels-on-a-mission are whining on about. Any reviewer who insists on downgrading what is a decently substantive TV *episode* just because black women have the leads is clearly on a mission of foul intent.

The dialogue is a bit weak in the Terminus segments, but on the whole for a small screen production the acting is decent to good. Those who are criticizing the "gun" fights on Terminus don't really have a good case, as we don't even know what kind of weapons are being used.

The strongest segment is when Empire goes to confront the religious leaders on a planet otherwise ignored. The relationship between Empire and Demerzel shows signs of strain in this episode.

As for this series and episode not following the books, so what? The books by Asimov are only a source of characters and conflicts. A TV show should not be constrained by the books.

I consider episode 6 to be the most interesting since the episode 1.

Cracking episode but still the phoney book purists come...

[ShippersAreEvil · 9/10 · 22 October 2021]

Absolutele banger of an episode that clearly shows how the later books - and Asimov's own realisation of the flaws of the original trilogy - are being incorporated. Anyone who is blind to that does not understand the source material, no matter how much they bleat on.

I think we are seeing an outline of how the Second Foundation will be handled (ie not just a deus ex machina problem solver, as in the trilogy - again a problem that Asimov recognised and dealt with). I wonder if The Mule will turn out to be a corruption of that (although I'd prefer him to be as random as in the books - we shall see).

The whole production is showing that you cannot produce a galaxy-spanning story without fleshing out that story. Superb stuff - BBC Radio tried to digest the entire trilogy to 8 hours back in the 70s. You just can't, even on radio, but especially not on TV.

Seriously, if you hate it that much put us out of your misery and go and watch something you enjoy.

The universe turns on the actions of one individual....

[gee-15 · 4/10 · 26 October 2021]

Unfortunately, this (see review title) totally belies the premise of Asimov's Foundation series...at least the original ones. In those books, the actions of individuals were important but Seldon's work could only predict the behaviors of large groups of people. So the work of the individual was carried out against the background of large scale predictions. According to this episode, psychohistory now predicts what will occur when individuals make certain decisions. This is heavily implied by the vision Salvor Hardin has of Hari speaking with his foster son (a rather clumsily inserted piece of exposition, in my opinion). This turns what is a (fictional) scientific discipline into a kind of magical power (shades of Star Wars' Force). In fact, I think this may be the problem. The writers are trying to insert the Foundation series into a Star Wars like template...and it just isn't a good fit.

The Anacreons' revenge plan is frankly a bit derivative (a planet-destroying spaceship...now where have I heard that before?). Lee Pace's Cleon continues to be interesting to watch (but their robot nursemaid is some kind of religious acolyte? That came out of left field.) Brother Dawn's color blindness is an interesting little twist. As for his tentative romantic relationship with the pretty gardener...well, her chances of surviving the series intact have definitely plummeted. But we'll see. Overall, this episode wasn't that compelling but I finally realized what the major issue with the series is: A profound lack of faith in ( but not necessarily respect for) for the source material. But hope springs eternal...it may not be Foundation but it still could get more interesting.

Requires attention to detail, but things are falling into place.

[jeff-31-451951 · 9/10 · 22 October 2021]

Earlier episodes laid the foundation (pun intended) for a number of things that happened in this episode, but you had to be paying close attention (then and now). While the narration initially suggested that we would be "spoon fed" what we needed to know, this is incorrect. I have discovered that this is not a series that you can watch casually, as many small details become relevant later on, and the writers assume the viewer's full attention (and a broad vocabulary). In other words, notwithstanding the voice overs, this is very much in the realm of "show" don't tell, but the voice overs send a mixed message.

I'll refrain from going into the details, but it appears that numerous things are falling into place every time we switch locations during the episode based on things we learned in earlier episodes. (Hint: think about what we've learned so far about the role of souls/AI/genetic diversity/group think/figureheads and the impact of love on "the math" when you watch this episode).

In short, foundation requires you to really be "on it," but I'm beginning to thoroughly enjoy it. I also appreciate how it is pushing the boundaries, and suggesting "norms" that society has yet to even consider.

I'll also note that the acting is becoming more compelling and less distracting than in earlier episodes. This was the first time I actually cared about a character, and it was not the character that I thought it was going to be.

Explain it to me

[moonelf-663-571610 · 2/10 · 23 October 2021]

The people giving high rates have never read the books. I get it. But please, explain to me what you consider good about this.

Just a few things in just this one episode:

• utter nonsense like a child who inexplicably defeats a trained warrior. Sure, why not? After all that's only a skilled warrior attacking the Foundation, one of their chosen soldiers against a 10 years old child.

• Hardin and her father sharing a nice moment walking together, smiling and laughing like they're goin fishing, remembering the good ol' times on Trantor. Never mind the enemy army on their trail, plotting and killing people just behind them.

• yes, another unbearable love story with oh so boring moments about the young Emperor - oh wait, he's inexplicably the one and only clone who's different from the others! That's strange, indeed.

It's ok, you never read the books. This could be a GREAT series even by changing most things from the books. But it REALLY isn't.

What made good the original story was a bunch of great ideas, starting from the capacity of one man, Hari Seldon, to foresee events on a huge scale: even in this series they said many times he couldn't foresee events regarding a single man. And here, in episode 6, they betray even that: "the galaxy revolves around you, one man!". Yeah right.

Then Demerzel; they took away the great reveal - look she's a robot, ok, so what, not that interesting after all - and they even made her a RELIGIOUS puppet. This robot supposed to have a plan for the galaxy.

And finally Salvor Hardin. This is probably what I despise the most. They took the one character that achieved great many things without ever touching a weapon, and repeating that "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" (a phrase so big it became famous much beyond the books), and they turned him into a magical character who goes around shooting like in a videogame, and never accomplish a damn thing.

I get it, they wanted freedom to devise a plot entirely new. But they only had to follow a couple important ideas, like the basic concept of psychohistory. Instead they turned even those upside down - the first seldon crisis due to a single person and one unexpected event, the rogues finding a ship - and this should have been foreseen by Seldon? Something which goes entirely against everything it should be?

It's not just different from the books: it's nonsense. This plot just makes no sense at all.

And it's damn boring too.

Great episode. Silly haters.

[rob2018 · 10/10 · 23 October 2021]

Lots happens in this one. Loved the pacing and how things seem to start connecting. Also introduced to a few more elements and teasers ti keep us intrigued.

Why are the haters watching this show 6 episodes in if they think it is so terrible? Just so they can tank the ratings and "hope it gets cancelled" as one other reviewer stated. This proves how little we can trust their opinion of this series and episode. Go watch something you enjoy than trying to prevent those of us who are enjoying it from continuing to enjoy it. We have no interest in being miserable with you.

Stiring the pot

[blessingsmgolomba · 10/10 · 22 October 2021]

The most momentous character in this episode is actually Cleon the 14th. The Empire is founded on the flacky premise of homogenous genetic clones of Cleon the 1st. Having a Cleon with defective genetics establishes a base for more conflict with majored religious movements in the Empire. Cleon 14th also seems to be fundamentally different in how he views and deals with conflict, preferring to defer from the big stick mentality of his predecessors. Even though he might be redemption for the empire, he is highly expendable and is under growing threat from the engines of his own planet.

Salvor Hadon is coming along nicely, but seems to be unprepared and naive in contrast to the character in the books. I hope it's part of character development.

Overall, the series is coming along nicely. However, a logical map to unravell the whole series seems to be growing more complex with each episode. It does seem to be a three dimensional chess played across the space-time continuum.

The religion of the three goddesses seems to be a nice touch. I admit, it seems like a crossbreed between Kemetic Spirit Science and Hyperianism. Fanciful, and downright fantastical, but it plays the part.

Most of this has nothing to do with the Foundation. It's a horrible adaptation.

[sarastro7 · 4/10 · 22 October 2021]

So now Demerzel the robot is RELIGIOUS?! D'oh! There goes one of the major messages of the books, that the robots represent the progressive power of science and technology. There's really nothing left in this show of any of Asimov's points, plot or characters. It's a nice-looking show, but as a Foundation adaptation, it's the worst kind of corrupt crap! Filled with totally un-Asimovian ideas, which the writers obviously think, highly erroneously, are better than Asimov's. It's the very definition of a travesty.

Wrong book?

[bobwelsh-34133 · 8/10 · 31 October 2021]

I've found the series most enjoyable and intriguing but obviously Asimov missed out all the problems in the empire? Sorry but this should not have been called Foundation.

For those attacking book readers..

[atanias · 1/10 · 24 October 2021]

Go watch Dune 2021 to see how a good, faithful adaptation that respects the source material looks like..

The sad thing is, AppleTV could had made a great ORIGINAL show just based on the Emperors story. It is the only thing that works in the show.

Sad the the "Foundation" part of a Foundation adaptation is so badly done that it drags down the entire show. :(

PS: Once the "plan" of the Anacreons was finally revealed this episode it is clear that they are skipping the actual first crisis and using elements of the second crisis.. What a waste.

thickly complicated adventure

[DCthirtyone · 10/10 · 25 October 2021]

Simple minds want simple stories, enjoy this epic as it unfolds.

Brother Day is drips power and concealed fury, I can't wait to see where he and Gaal and Salvor take us.

I want to read the books now

[moviesfilmsreviewsinc · 10/10 · 22 June 2023]

Foundation is now a space opera, and to celebrate, a Star Wars-inspired secret super-weapon like the Invictus is included. In "Death And The Maiden," Phara plans to gather Encyclopedists with ship mechanics and astronavigation skills to help unearth and repair a mythical weapon for the dying Anarceons to wage war against the Empire. The show, featuring the battle on Terminus, Brother Day's attempts to navigate the Byzantine political landscape, and Brother Dawn's personal awakening, is entertaining. However, its weakest aspect is its treatment of characters as foretold agents of destiny in a grand mathematical formula. The show must eventually reckon with the religion it creates, and characters constantly comparing themselves to math has become unsatisfactory. Brother Day visits a Galaxy's largest faith to ensure the ascendancy of a leader supporting the Empire. Sci-fi invests in creating religion, allowing for grand world-building scope when done properly. The episode showcases the traditional religions and their impact on the galaxy's world-building. Luminism, older than the empire, is centered on three moons that represent the trinity of goddesses themselves-of Maiden, Mother, and Crone. Only Maiden is hospitable, and even it is an arid place, not dissimilar to the Middle East and dominated by salt mines that produce the faith's signature religious trinket, the leviathan crystals. But more interesting than the arguably superfluous details of the faith itself is that Demerzel is one of its three trillion adherents. Why an android thousands of years old would choose to pursue faith, or even more basic, how it could do so are legitimate questions Brother Day raises. Demerzel's answer is vague, but essentially no different than what you would receive from a non-robot believer. Zephyr Halima (T'Nia Miller) is the heretical leader Brother Day meets upon landing on Maiden. She comes alone with no entourage to provide the expected level of pomp and obedience that would normally greet their arrival. It's a power move and Halima is unwavering through the entire episode. Even after Day promises a massive infrastructure project to shore up support for the sympathetic candidate, Halima arrives at the funeral of her predecessor to provide some old fashioned testifying that decisively wins her the hearts of everyone in attendance. Most alarmingly, Demerzel herself bows down to the upstart Zephyr, with unknown implications for her future with The Empire. Brother Dawn experiences ennui due to the production of galactic Hapsburgs after four hundred years of reproducing the same genetic code. He initially hides his hunting prowess from Dusk, fearing his older brother would intuit his color-blindness, which gives him an edge against camouflaged prey. Dawn admits to his gardener paramour about his color-blindness, but he is aware of the consequences of being deficient and distrusts Dusk, who uses conscripted concubines to spy on his siblings. Previously, the brothers act in tandem, deferring to Day's will. Dusk's aggressiveness in this version makes it difficult to imagine him willing to sacrifice one generation of clones for the dynasty's preservation. Salvor experiences a vision during her position, transporting into Gaal's body at the time of Hari's murder. She witnesses the lead-up between the two men, revealing that Hari knew he had to die. He initially expected Raych to leave aboard the escape pod, avoiding implicating Gaal but not bringing her along. Hari believed his theorem would crumble if he survived and Raych and Gaal remained together. Raych did not follow these orders, and his life was forfeited. This decision explains why Gaal's ship was locked against her, discrediting the thesis from last week's review. The way Salvor experiences these visions and how the Vault facilitates these psychic events remains unknown.

Well, that was an impressive effort

[paketep · 1/10 · 22 October 2021]

It was difficult to write a worse episode than 5, and even more difficult to write with more disdain for Asimov, but Goyer did it. What an abysmal episode.

It would be a terrible one for any tv series, but this is way worse, since he had incredible material to work with.

I'm looking forward to see how deep this goes by the end of the season. The fact that this is SO incredibly bad has to mean that they are doing it on purpose.

I can think of so many showrunners that would have done wonders with half the money Goyer got here. And this is what he does?

What an amazing waste.

-Dear producers,give to Michael Burnham a straight girl's haircut,please !

[batmanforever-93249 · 10/10 · 6 November 2021]

The episode is not bad at all,it is a little boring with all that festivity ,but i just can't stand to watch another Michael Burnham ,this is the third show with a Michael Burnham ,after Star Trek Discovery, Star Trek Lower Decks and Vagrant Queen and the character is not even a good one , it is HORRIBLE ,if you want to copy and paste a character or a person ,you should choose a LIKEABLE ONE,choose Rhianna for god's sake !!!

Move over Michael Burnham...

[doctordbx · 3/10 · 23 October 2021]

We've got ourselves a new Space Jesus!

Never been to space but can take a space ship off with little guidance? Not to mention the whole contrived plot about locking the ship. Why exactly did they need the guy? They could have put a bullet in his head and held the gun to hers or her mum and told her how to fly... it must be easy if a first timer can ease it off the ground.

Salvor is such a badly written character that in order to fix plot holes she has to turn into Space Jesus.... just like Michael Burnham from Star Trek... another character who it seems the entire universe revolves around.

I read the books so long ago I can barely remember them. I do remember though they were great reads that had me turning page after page.

This show is definitely not that.

adaptation of what?

[pama73 · 1/10 · 24 October 2021]

I know this is not adaptation of asimov's foundation, better it is adaptation of star wars. The storyline is in future and it is been enacted in space.

Dumb and dumber

[maciej-tumasz · 1/10 · 25 October 2021]

I do not know how this series manages to be worse with every episode. Somebody should buy Apple executives a ticket to see Dune - to see how great works of literature CAN be adapted with modern cinematic technology AND respect for the source material. Unlike here.

Narratively mediocre

[pernix · 4/10 · 22 October 2021]

The source material offers so much to breath and feel the vastness and time spanning hugeness of Asimov's universe.

Unfortunately, here we find ourselves trapped in bad Star Trek episode territory, and I say it with the greatest respect for Roddenberry's creation.

The narrative is still haunted by tedious voice-overs, Klingon-speaking anacreons driven by the sad and overused "retribution" motivation, galactic emperors shooting CGI birds.

No trace of Asimov characters and inventiveness in here.